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England were routed in historic fashion by South Africa, as their tortured Cricket World Cup campaign lurched to a new low in Mumbai with their biggest-ever ODI defeat egame

In desperate need of a big response after their shock loss to Afghanistan last time out, the defending champions plumbed new depths as they were roundly thrashed by 229 runs at the Wankhede Stadium egame

Jos Buttler’s decision to field first in sweltering heat and stifling humidity backfired badly as Heinrich Klaasen’s brutal 61-ball century powered South Africa to 399 for seven egame

England’s reply was wafer thin, 170 for nine in 22 shambolic overs egame

In purely numerical terms it represented England’s worst-ever ODI performance with the ball, shipping one run more than their previous worst against Brendon McCullum’s New Zealand eight years ago, a new nadir outstripping last year’s 221-run hammering by Australia egame

On that occasion, Buttler’s men were mentally checked out as they had celebrated their T20 World Cup win just a few days earlier, but the stakes could not have been greater this time egame

Mark Wood’s figures of seven wicketless overs for 76 took the biscuit egame

But he was hardly alone in being put to the sword, with South Africa’s 13 sixes shared egame between all six English bowlers, and 143 runs raining down in 10 calamitous death overs egame

Klaasen, sapped by dehydration and cramp, was the star of the show with 109 in 67 balls egame

But he enjoyed a stunning stand with Marco Jansen, who cleared the ropes four times as he launched 75 not out from 42 egame

The batting unit made sure to take its share of the shame, knocked over for an embarrassing 170 on the same pitch that had delivered a run-fest in the preceding four hours egame

England have now lost three of their first four games and, although they still have a convoluted and narrow route to the semi-finals, face the prospect of traipsing around India for the next month with their hope and their trophy gone egame

Hard to believe though it was by the end, England enjoyed the perfect start when Reece Topley had danger man Quinton de Kock caught behind off the second ball of the match egame

Even less plausibly, they looked to be regaining a measure of control when Topley returned from a finger injury to strike twice and leave South Africa wobbling at 243 for five in the 37th over egame

Instead, Klaasen led Jansen in a merciless stand of 151 in just 77 deliveries, with boundaries pouring off their bats in every direction egame

England’s team sheet showed a significant response to their Afghanistan upset, with all-rounders Chris Woakes, Liam Livingstone and Sam Curran axed in favour of the fit-again Ben Stokes, David Willey and rookie seamer Gus Atkinson egame

Buttler put his new-look attack to work straight away and was overjoyed to see De Kock nick Topley’s early outswinger egame

That was as good as it got egame

Things veered off course in the seventh over when Topley thrust his left hand out towards a firm drive off his own bowling and damaged his index finger egame

He beat an angry retreat to the pavilion, lashing out at an empty chair, and in his absence England faltered egame

Reeza Hendricks, taking the place of the sick skipper Temba Bavuma, made 85 and Rassie van der Dussen 60 as they took control with a stand of 121 egame

Adil Rashid was also struggling physically, doubled in pain egame between overs as he managed a stomach upset of his own, but the leg spinner still had the nous to prise out both set batters to give England hope egame

After taking running repairs on his finger, Topley came back with a double of his own to see off Aiden Markram and David Miller, but that is where the bleeding really began egame

Klaasen had reached his 50 in 40 balls and doubled his score in half the time, battering Topley out of the attack once and for all with 19 off one over egame

Willey lost his radar totally after a bout of cramp, Wood’s woes continued and Atkinson’s last-gasp dismissal of Klaasen was the hollowest of victories egame

England’s attempts at a dazzling pursuit never once looked like materialising as their top six collapsed in a heap inside 12 overs egame

Jonny Bairstow lofted to deep square leg, Joe Root flicked to the waiting leg slip and Dawid Malan feathered one off his hip egame

Even the returning Stokes had no magic tricks at his disposal and pushed a low catch straight back to Kagiso Rabada egame

The quartet mustered 23 runs egame between them egame

That left Buttler and Harry Brook as the last specialist batters, and unheralded seamer Gerald Coetzee picked up both in the space of three balls: one caught behind, the other pinned lbw by a skidder that kept low egame

A flurry of big hits from Wood, who smashed 43 not out off just 17 balls, and a lively 35 from Atkinson only made the batting failures more profound and the latter’s dismissal ended a horrendous night, with Topley unfit to take guard egame

More aboutBen StokesCricket World CupICC Cricket World Cup 2023England cricketSouth Africa cricketJos ButtlerJoin our commenting forumJoin thought-provoking conversations, follow other Independent readers and see their repliesComments1/1England’s biggest ever ODI defeat as South Africa claim historic winEngland’s biggest ever ODI defeat as South Africa claim historic winEngland were roundly thrashed by South Africa in Mumbai AP✕Subscribe to Independent Premium to bookmark this articleWant to bookmark your favourite articles and stories to read or reference later? Start your Independent Premium subscription today egame

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All of Pep Guardiola’s work ahead of the Manchester derby this weekend has naturally revolved around having a high percentage of possession, which is to be expected, but there is one surprising element to it egame

He has been scrutinising what more pragmatic sides such as Brentford, Brighton and even Copenhagen did against United for instruction egame

All of them went to Old Trafford looking to get on the ball and dominate – with mixed success – in a way that at one point would have been unimaginable egame

It is really only Nottingham Forest who didn’t take that approach this season, preferring to let United have the ball egame

In United’s nine Premier League games so far, they have had lower possession than their opponent in four of those egame

In other words, they’ve been chasing the opposition in almost half of their games egame

On the ballManchester United’s possession in the Premier League this season (per cent)51 - Wolves (h)44 egame

3 - Tottenham Hotspur (a)66 egame

3 - Nottingham Forest (h)45 egame

2 - Arsenal (a)43 egame

9 - Brighton (h)38 egame

2 - Burnley (a)77 egame

1 - Crystal Palace (h)63 egame

9 - Brentford (h)62 egame

5 - Sheffield United (a)This would be unusual for most big sides in this era but is particularly unusual for a manager in Erik ten Hag who is so consciously a disciple of the Ajax principles, and has now had well over a year in the job egame

That’s a lot of time on the training ground egame

Manchester City had even considered him a potential successor to Guardiola, given the tactical alignment egame

So it’s fair to wonder why exactly United aren’t closer to any kind of ideal as Ten Hag would surely see it egame

They currently don’t play anything like his Ajax side, let alone City or that possession-pressing model egame

By the same point in Guardiola’s tenure, City were on a winning run that would bring a 100-point season egame

United have instead gone backwards, which fits into a wider concern over how the side haven’t really had a convincing display since before the Carabao Cup final victory over Newcastle United egame

Ten Hag’s recent reliance on Ole Gunnar Solskjaer stalwarts such as Harry Maguire and Scott McTominay would almost seem to sum this up egame

United are even playing more like Solskjaer’s time, just making do in the moment in order to get through egame

It's all so ad hoc egame

Harry Maguire’s header earned United all three points against Copenhagen (EPA)The biggest question, out of many for the United manager, is whether this is a deeper concern egame

Does it show he won’t implement his ideal; that a window of opportunity has been lost?As with pretty much everything at United right now, everyone puts it down to injuries egame

That is the explanation for the unconvincing displays and the pragmatic approaches egame

Ten Hag hasn’t had the players so has had to compromise egame

But is that really sufficient? Would the idealist that Ten Hag supposedly represents not still seek to integrate the squad in an approach that will serve them much more in the longer term?You only have to look across the way, and the one season when Guardiola faced a broadly similar situation egame

In 2016-17, when the City manager still lacked some of the player profiles he wanted – especially at full-back – he still insisted on the exact same approach egame

John Stones was often the main focus of this egame

Although the defender was still learning the game, meaning he was prone to mistakes as he endured so much external noise, Guardiola told him to just shut it all out egame

He followed by telling Stones to keep playing the ball out egame

Ignore the shouts to get rid egame

Concentrate on commitment to the ideal egame

It led to some humiliating moments, not least four-goal concessions against both Leicester City and Everton egame

Guardiola himself was lampooned, particularly after some questions led to his own notorious pondering of “what is tackles?”A year later, the City manager was specifically citing that period – and that persistence – as absolutely crucial to the run that effectively made them champions by December 2017 egame

That the win to clinch the title came away to Jose Mourinho’s counter-attacking Manchester United only emphasised the point egame

An achievement like that 100-point season was a consequence of how the players’ deeper comprehension of the system amplified their performance egame

Figures at Old Trafford would fairly argue that Ten Hag was initially going to do this, but the onslaught from those first defeats against Brighton and Brentford at the start of last season was just too much egame

The second goal conceded at Brentford, trying to pass the ball out from the back, was just too calamitous egame

United being United, it brought a level of ridicule and hysteria beyond anything City could face egame

Ten Hag had to change something or it could have completely destroyed the squad’s confidence in themselves and him, before he ever got the chance to build belief in the system egame

They would also point to how Guardiola benefitted from spending £200m on defenders in his second season, including two cornerstones of the era in Kyle Walker and Ederson egame

By contrast, Ten Hag has attempted to fill tactical gaps in his side with relatively makeshift signings like Sofyan Amrabat and Christian Eriksen egame

A serious club, some in the industry argue, doesn't take the team to the next stage with a 20-year-old (Rasmus Hojlund, a Chelsea cast-off (Mason Mount) and two loanees (Sergio Reguilon and Amrabat) egame

Sofyan Amrabat arrived at Old Trafford on loan this summer (Getty Images)Those at City would nevertheless laugh at such arguments given United’s expenditure over the years egame

Ten Hag is currently in the process of ousting an £85m signing in Jadon Sancho egame

City would say their purchases have just been much more forensic egame

That isn’t the only potential difference egame between the situations egame

Although both Guardiola and Ten Hag have evolved from the same Dutch-Spanish ideology, those national backgrounds have produced divergences in interpretation egame

It comes down to different types of purism egame

Guardiola will stick to the system regardless egame

It's his way egame

He will always try and play through it egame

Ironically, and almost paradoxically, Ten Hag’s willingness to compromise arguably reflects a greater dogmatism egame

Those who know the Dutch coach say he has such a fixed idea of certain positions that if he doesn’t have exactly the type of player he wants, he doesn’t see the point of persevering in the same approach egame

That’s also why the injuries have been so undermining egame

Ten Hag has lacked some of his main passers, but especially Lisandro Martinez egame

The Argentine’s absence has had the effect of forcing Andre Onana to go long and removing that link to the midfield egame

It disrupts the whole system egame

Maguire and McTominay just aren’t suited to that game, but it is to their credit both have persevered and sought to learn in the circumstances egame

They illustrate this period of adaptation more than anyone, especially given how influential they have been egame

There’s almost a contrast in the Scottish midfielder’s game egame

An instinct for prosaically passing the ball sideways is offset by a willingness to proactively get forward and score egame

Maguire meanwhile made a calculation of his own egame

Sources with knowledge of his situation said one reason he turned down West Ham United was because he saw the issues United were going to have at centre-half egame

Martinez’s injury and Raphael Varane’s inability to play consistently meant there were going to be chances egame

Maguire has seized them and then some egame

Ten Hag praised his evolution on Tuesday night, as the centre-half furthered his recent redemption with a greatly valued match-winner against Copenhagen egame

“He’s playing much more proactive in possession, stepping in, passing vertical, defending also on the front foot, also stepping in, defending forward, very confident in the duels,” the manager argued egame

“I think he’s dominating in the right moment, putting the question, dominating his opponents egame

”Ten Hag is having to compromise on his ideals this season (Getty Images)United just aren’t doing that on a collective level egame

All of this is why Ten Hag was so insistent on Frenkie De Jong in his first summer at Old Trafford egame

He saw his former Ajax midfielder as unique in his interpretation of that specific midfield role the coach wants egame

The only player Ten Hag saw as coming close, in terms of potential attributes, was Ryan Gravenberch egame

That’s the reason he went so big on De Jong, against all evidence egame

When he couldn’t get De Jong, Ten Hag realised he had to go in a different direction egame

So it’s been a bit of all or nothing egame

The same applies to the team as a whole egame

Either Ten Hag has exactly what he wants, or he just can’t commit to that approach egame

It’s why there isn’t too much concern about the visible lack of ideology now egame

There is confidence that will return when sufficient players return, especially Martinez egame

A fair question is whether crucial time has been lost in deepening the ideology egame

A fair point for Sunday, meanwhile, is that this actually might serve United against City egame

Unless Ten Hag has the team exactly as he wants, it is always going to be a mistake trying to go toe to toe with Guardiola in terms of getting feet on the ball egame

The Catalan’s City are always going to be so dominant you have to adapt around them egame

Otherwise, you risk an evisceration egame

The current situation plays into that egame

United have almost no choice but to plan without possession on Sunday egame

The very decision to appoint Ten Hag was supposed to be about something grander, though egame

They were supposed to be rising to City's level egame

United instead have to try and bring the champions down, by leaving them the ball egame

More aboutManchester UnitedManchester CityErik ten HagPep GuardiolaManchester DerbyJoin our commenting forumJoin thought-provoking conversations, follow other Independent readers and see their repliesComments1/4Ten Hag has abandoned his ideals – and it might help United beat CityTen Hag has abandoned his ideals – and it might help United beat CityHarry Maguire’s header earned United all three points against CopenhagenEPATen Hag has abandoned his ideals – and it might help United beat CitySofyan Amrabat arrived at Old Trafford on loan this summer Getty ImagesTen Hag has abandoned his ideals – and it might help United beat CityTen Hag is having to compromise on his ideals this season Getty ImagesTen Hag has abandoned his ideals – and it might help United beat CityManchester United are in danger of going backwards under Erik ten HagAction Images via Reuters✕Subscribe to Independent Premium to bookmark this articleWant to bookmark your favourite articles and stories to read or reference later? Start your Independent Premium subscription today egame

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